Speak Free Politics > We The People > War On Terror
Full Version: IRAN FIRES MISSLES
Detmurds
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran test-fired nine long- and medium-range missiles Wednesday during war games that officials said aimed to show the country can retaliate against any U.S. and Israeli attack, state television reported.

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Gen. Hossein Salami, the air force commander of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards, said the exercise would "demonstrate our resolve and might against enemies who in recent weeks have threatened Iran with harsh language," the TV report said.

Wednesday's war games were being conducted at the mouth of the Strait of Hormuz, a strategic waterway through which about 40 percent of the world's oil passes. Iran has threatened to shut down traffic in the strait if attacked.

The report showed footage of at least three missiles firing simultaneously, and said the barrage included a new version of the Shahab-3 missile, which officials have said has a range of 1,250 miles and is armed with a 1-ton conventional warhead.

(AP) This image from Iranian Television shows a Shahab-3 missile being launched, which officials have...
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That would put Israel, Turkey, the Arabian peninsula, Afghanistan and Pakistan within striking distance.

"Our hands are always on the trigger and our missiles are ready for launch," the official IRNA news agency quoted Salami as saying Wednesday.

The report comes less than a day after Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad dismissed fears that Israel and the United States could be preparing to attack his country, calling the possibility a "funny joke."

"I assure you that there won't be any war in the future," Ahmadinejad told a news conference Tuesday during a visit to Malaysia for a summit of developing Muslim nations.

But even as Ahmadinejad and other Iranian officials have dismissed the possibility of attack, Tehran has stepped up its warnings of retaliation if the Americans - or Israelis - do launch military action, including threats to hit Israel and U.S. Gulf bases with missiles and stop oil traffic through the vital Gulf region.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Wednesday's tests "evidence that the missile threat is not an imaginary one."

"Those who say that there is no Iranian missile threat against which we should build a missile defense system perhaps ought to talk to the Iranians about their claims," Rice said while traveling in Sofia, Bulgaria.

A White House spokesman called the tests "completely inconsistent with Iran's obligations to the world."

"The Iranian regime only furthers the isolation of the Iranian people from the international community when it engages in this sort of activity," said Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for the National Security Council.

"They should also refrain from further missile tests if they truly seek to gain the trust of the world," he added, speaking from Japan where President Bush is attending the Group of Eight summit.

In late June, Vice Adm. Kevin Cosgriff, who was then the commander of the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet, said any attempt by Iran to seal off the Strait of Hormuz would be viewed as an act of war. The U.S. 5th Fleet is based in Bahrain, across the Gulf from Iran.

Israel's military sent warplanes over the eastern Mediterranean for a large military exercise in June that U.S. officials described as a possible rehearsal for a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, which the West fears are aimed at producing atomic weapons.

Iran says its nuclear program is geared only toward generating electricity, not weapons.

The Israeli exercise was widely interpreted as a show of force as well as a practice on skills needed to execute a long-range strike mission.

Shaul Mofaz, an Israeli Cabinet minister, set off an international uproar last month by saying in a published interview that Israel would have "no choice" but to attack Iran if it doesn't halt its nuclear program. Mofaz is a former military chief and defense minister, and has been Israel's representative in a strategic dialogue on Iran with U.S. officials.

On Wednesday, Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said Israel "does not desire hostility and conflict with Iran."

"But it is clear that the Iranian nuclear program and the Iranian ballistic missile program is a matter of grave concern," Regev said.

The Guards and Iran's regular army routinely hold exercises two or three times a year.
Detmurds
Well, last night Iran did it again,..they "test" fired missles into the Persian Gulf! The very same Gulf I have been underway in on 3 Aircraft Carriers, and one Destroyer.

C'mon Israel!
Montrovant
While I admit almost everything I've seen about Iran and it's current leadership leads me to feel I don't want them to have any military at all, let alone the possibility of nukes, there's also a point I can sympathize with. The US has very much a 'do as I say, not as I do' foreign policy. WE can have nukes, and test fire all the missiles we want, etc.....but any country we don't like can't do the same things. I know, that's a very simplified way to look at it, but I do think it's understandable that other nations might be upset with our seeming heavy-handedness about this kind of thing.

Don't get me wrong, Iran is an extreme case and I'm not saying we should let them do whatever they want. I'm just pointing out that, viewed from the other side of things, we may not be the paragons of virtue on this issue. Even those who think Ahmadinejad is a dangerous fruitcake might disagree with the way the US comes off as the adult speaking to a child. I don't know that there's any other way to do things, either. It's just something that comes to mind whenever I hear about us not wanting other nations to have weapons that we take for granted it is perfectly fine if we have.

I still hope things can be settled before Israel takes any military action. That part of the world is too much a focal point for the other nations, the US, China, Russia, etc. I spend the odd moment worrying over what could happen should Israel decide to strike at Iran.
B-man
I think if there is a conflict between the two, Iran's neighbors would just sit back and watch the fireworks. They are scared of that freak as much as we are.

I see your point Mont but we don't use tha argument with the police.

I mean we don't say that since the police have guns so should the bad guy. When Iran stops acting like the bad guy, they can have the guns.
Montrovant
Actually B-man, I think that analogy makes my point! smile.gif

That whole idea that the US is the world's police is really what I think causes me problems. Why do we get to decide what is or isn't ok for other nations? When it all boils down to the simplest things, it's because we have the power. Our combination of military and financial power lets us dictate to smaller nations, but that doesn't mean we have the moral impetus to do so. I can imagine how most Americans would react if we were forced to change our military based on the whim of another country, especially if that whim contradicted what that very country did for it's own military smile.gif The basic reaction would be for that other country to piss off and mind it's own business. Well, I imagine it often feels exactly the same from the other side of things.

Our own security concerns may force us to do this kind of dictating to others, but from their perspective I imagine that doesn't seem to make sense or be true. It's an eye of the beholder kind of deal.

Oh, and I'm not so much worried about Iran's neighbors (although there's always the possibility for one of them to do something stupid in the event of an Israeli attack) as the possible repercussions with Russia and China. Those two have seemed to always be on opposite sides of any conflict we have in the middle east. A lot of that was probably cold war maneuvering and posturing, but it still seems to continue.
MAKEMDEAD
But Mont, we the United States have been down-sizing our nuclear status since the 80's, and we are not able to rid ourselves of them because of countries like Iran.

B-man
Mont, I think the fact that I respect your opinion goes without saying.

However, I do think it is our duty to be the world's police. I used to think otherwise but as the world's biggest superpower, I think it is our duty and obligation to look out for the best interest of humanity.

I think people have become so jaded and distrusting of our government that they don't believe that we do that.
McPrez
You bring a good point there Mont-man. And I agree. Thing is like the gun control issues and concerns it is the same for countries and the possession of nuclear weapons. Some countries do this procedure legally, and some don't and won't. The U.S. gets inspected by Russians, and Russia gets inspected by Americans in regards to each other's weaponry. This was agreed to I think during the Ronald Reagan administration. Iran on the other hand is refusing to allow any of this agreement, or anything like it in their pursuit of having them and as a matter of fact they still want to claim it is for energy only. And like Makem said it is the countries like Iran who prevents all countries from getting rid of all of these holocaust makers.
GinaGirl81
Now they say that Iran faked this? They did a little photo-shop or something using a computer or what? As I have read in another site,...A-Jad is just a Fecknoozle!
B-man
QUOTE (GinaGirl81 @ Jul 15 2008, 09:08 PM)
Now they say that Iran faked this? They did a little photo-shop or something using a computer or what? As I have read in another site,...A-Jad is just a Fecknoozle!

I wouldn't doubt it. The Russians faked there stuff back in the Cold War.
nibor
This is a fairly concise analogy of the brainwashed situation and who has the "right"
to do what............................http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/375.html unsure.gif
Alucard
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 18 2008, 08:41 AM)
This is a fairly concise analogy of the brainwashed situation and who has the "right"
to do what............................http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/375.html unsure.gif

Here we have another rediculous waste of time from Nibor...

Save youself the trouble of sitting thru that crap...

Yowza! you are out there Nibor...

I have a bridge for sale! Are you interested?

I can answer the entire 7 minute 45 second rediculous video in one ten second sentence...

The difference between the countries that have nuclear capabilities now(eg, US/Israel/GB) and Iran is simple...

Iran has "swore" to the "total destruction and elimination of the state of Isreal from the face of the earth"

I think Iran has been pretty clear of its intentions....
nibor
If anyone believes that we are going to cake walk into there they're certifiable , or even come close to pulling what we pulled in Iraq , especially with the Chinese deploying defensive bases there, I want NO ONE like you making the call Braintard............not only are you going to piss off the rest of the 1.5 BILLION muslims which totally out number and out flank our complete force, if you piss them all off and scare them enough, *they're all going to strike back together sooner or later, when they've decided that the minorities have killed enough of their people*, but then you're going to risk starting it with China...............for what asshole, the chinese already possess enough intercontinental fire power to completely change the world..............who the phuk do you new world nitwits think you are.......................buncha braindead wankers!!!!!!!!!!!!


What are you accomplishing, PEACE FOR ISREAL , screw Isreal they're no where near worth fighting that fight for nitwit...............................No way no how! tongue.gif


** addition
B-man
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 18 2008, 11:51 AM)
If anyone believes that we are going to cake walk into there they're certifiable , or even come close to pulling what we pulled in Iraq , especially with the Chinese deploying defensive bases there I want NO ONE like you making the call Braintard............not only are you going to piss off the rest of the 1.5 BILLION muslims which totally out number and out flank our complete force if you piss them all off and scare them enough, but you're going to risk starting it with China...............for what asshole, the chinese already possess enough intercontinental fire power to completely change the world.


What are you accomplishing, PEACE FOR ISREAL , screw Isreal they're no where near worth fighting that fight for nitwit...............................No way no how! tongue.gif

This is the same rhetoric that went on in the cold war.

Al, you crack me up.
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 18 2008, 12:03 PM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 18 2008, 11:51 AM)
If anyone believes that we are going to cake walk into there they're  certifiable , or even come close to pulling what we pulled in Iraq ,  especially with the Chinese deploying defensive bases there I want NO ONE like you making the call Braintard............not only are you going to piss off the rest of the 1.5 BILLION muslims which totally out number and out flank our complete force if you piss them all off and scare them enough, but you're going to risk starting it with China...............for what asshole, the chinese already possess enough intercontinental fire power to completely change the world.


What are you accomplishing, PEACE FOR ISREAL , screw Isreal they're no where near worth fighting that fight for nitwit...............................No way no how! tongue.gif

This is the same rhetoric that went on in the cold war.

Al, you crack me up.

No it's NOT....................GET REAL......................Isreal didn't have a pot to piss in , in the cold war and should NOT be the minorital cause of this one, or anything like what could happen here.......................screw them, learn to get along with someone!!!!!!!!!!!

They are no where near worth killing the amounts of people they need killed to achieve their brand of peace............... tongue.gif

You want to protect Isreal, then occupy Isreal in the name of peace in Isreal................Send ALL UN AND DEFENSIVE TROOPS THERE and if Iran attacks the world in that posture , THEN maybe someone else deserves to die for Isreali peace????????? tongue.gif
nibor
You know what else...........I don't think this is about peace in Isreal anymore, IT'S A DIVERSION. huh.gif


By the numbers of duel citizenship/SINGLE LOYALTY (ISREALI) phuking Isrealis infiltrating into our goubment into unelected /appointed high ranking positions with total impunity, I THINK IT'S ABOUT ISREAL TAKING OVER THE UNITED STATES,while they create death to hold on to a stupid religious ROCK!!!!!!! tongue.gif
B-man
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 19 2008, 06:04 AM)
You know what else...........I don't think this is about peace in Isreal anymore, IT'S A DIVERSION. huh.gif


By the numbers of duel citizenship/SINGLE LOYALTY (ISREALI) phuking Isrealis infiltrating into our goubment into unelected /appointed high ranking positions with total impunity, I THINK IT'S ABOUT ISREAL TAKING OVER THE UNITED STATES,while they create death to hold on to a stupid religious ROCK!!!!!!! tongue.gif

If anyone is going to "take over" this country, I would want it to be Israel. Has anyone ever seen some of their women... wow eee! cool.gif
Alucard
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 19 2008, 10:04 AM)
You know what else...........I don't think this is about peace in Isreal anymore, IT'S A DIVERSION. huh.gif


By the numbers of duel citizenship/SINGLE LOYALTY (ISREALI) phuking Isrealis infiltrating into our goubment into unelected /appointed high ranking positions with total impunity, I THINK IT'S ABOUT ISREAL TAKING OVER THE UNITED STATES,while they create death to hold on to a stupid religious ROCK!!!!!!! tongue.gif

Hey Nibor,

ohmy.gif The out-patient program doesnt seem to be working out very well...

I have seen cases involving extreme delusion(also known as D.R.S) like this in the past...

You might want to consider increasing your meds and checking in to a 18 month 12 step program...blink.gif

If that is not possible... There is a dangerous but good home remedy for delusional reflux syndrome...

If you can

Attempt to listen to REO Speedwagons Hi fidelity album twice in a row then follow it up with Michael Jacksons Thriller as a chaser...

A fair percentage of patients that survive the entire music session have some sort of a scared strait type experience ohmy.gif that helps them to achieve at least some sense of reality... rolleyes.gif

Now wouldnt that be nice!... smile.gif


P.S. VERY IMPORTANT... Be sure to remove all sharp items from the house before you drop that needle on that REO lp , things can get real ugly before your even get to track two... I would even suggest removing hammers, pots and pans, as well as all dangerous chemicals and shoe laces from the premis before starting the procedure...

Good Luck!!!
Al
nibor
QUOTE (Alucard @ Jul 19 2008, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 19 2008, 10:04 AM)
You know what else...........I don't think this is about peace in Isreal anymore, IT'S A DIVERSION. huh.gif


By the numbers of duel citizenship/SINGLE LOYALTY (ISREALI) phuking Isrealis infiltrating into our goubment into unelected /appointed high ranking positions with total impunity, I THINK IT'S ABOUT ISREAL TAKING OVER THE UNITED STATES,while they create death to hold on to a stupid religious ROCK!!!!!!! tongue.gif

Hey Nibor,

ohmy.gif The out-patient program doesnt seem to be working out very well...

I have seen cases involving extreme delusion(also known as D.R.S) like this in the past...

You might want to consider increasing your meds and checking in to a 18 month 12 step program...blink.gif

If that is not possible... There is a dangerous but good home remedy for delusional reflux syndrome...

If you can

Attempt to listen to REO Speedwagons Hi fidelity album twice in a row then follow it up with Michael Jacksons Thriller as a chaser...

A fair percentage of patients that survive the entire music session have some sort of a scared strait type experience ohmy.gif that helps them to achieve at least some sense of reality... rolleyes.gif

Now wouldnt that be nice!... smile.gif


P.S. VERY IMPORTANT... Be sure to remove all sharp items from the house before you drop that needle on that REO lp , things can get real ugly before your even get to track two... I would even suggest removing hammers, pots and pans, as well as all dangerous chemicals and shoe laces from the premis before starting the procedure...

Good Luck!!!
Al

Obviously your term there shook your reality Brainturd! rolleyes.gif
B-man
QUOTE (Alucard @ Jul 19 2008, 10:04 PM)



laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
LIBERATOR
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 19 2008, 06:04 AM)
You know what else...........I don't think this is about peace in Isreal anymore, IT'S A DIVERSION. huh.gif


By the numbers of duel citizenship/SINGLE LOYALTY (ISREALI) phuking Isrealis infiltrating into our goubment into unelected /appointed high ranking positions with total impunity, I THINK IT'S ABOUT ISREAL TAKING OVER THE UNITED STATES,while they create death to hold on to a stupid religious ROCK!!!!!!! tongue.gif

There are many in this country that feels this way, so Nibor is not alone. I don't really have a strong view on either side to be honest. I guess a question that I have is do you dislike the people of Israel or the establishment of the country? I just don't get what drives your anger here Nibs??
nibor
QUOTE (LIBERATOR @ Jul 24 2008, 09:45 AM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 19 2008, 06:04 AM)
You know what else...........I don't think this is about peace in Isreal anymore, IT'S A DIVERSION. huh.gif


By the numbers of duel citizenship/SINGLE LOYALTY (ISREALI) phuking Isrealis infiltrating into our goubment into unelected /appointed high ranking positions with total impunity, I THINK IT'S ABOUT ISREAL TAKING OVER THE UNITED STATES,while they create death to hold on to a stupid religious ROCK!!!!!!! tongue.gif

There are many in this country that feels this way, so Nibor is not alone. I don't really have a strong view on either side to be honest. I guess a question that I have is do you dislike the people of Israel or the establishment of the country? I just don't get what drives your anger here Nibs??

I can't say that I dislike all the people of Isreal, I don't know all the people of Isreal, nor do I wish them harm, but I'm most definitely against killing off the rest of the world and having our children killed off in their stead!!!!!!!!!!! unsure.gif

I see absolutely NOTHING worthwhile enough about that nation that warrants all the death and destruction being supposedly committed for them! huh.gif

AND they've subverted our nation BY WRITTEN LAW, all the way to and including "the laws of GOD", why was this allowed , I can't abide by this and will not, is this why so many call for their destruction , why can't they just" be" in accordance with the rest of the world, they're entitled to their beliefs without FORCING THEM ON EVERYONE ELSE !? huh.gif
B-man
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 06:58 AM)





So in otherwords, you were for the holocaust and against us going to fight in World War 2. That is disgusting my friend. A lot of pepole want the holocaust to start all over again. I think you are one of them.

I am not sure what you mean that they rewrote God's law. My understanding is that Christians, while they believe Jews are the chosen people, believe that they turned their back on Christ and had him crucified. Would you agree with tha?
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 26 2008, 08:31 AM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 06:58 AM)





So in otherwords, you were for the holocaust and against us going to fight in World War 2. That is disgusting my friend. A lot of pepole want the holocaust to start all over again. I think you are one of them.

I am not sure what you mean that they rewrote God's law. My understanding is that Christians, while they believe Jews are the chosen people, believe that they turned their back on Christ and had him crucified. Would you agree with tha?

So in other words where the phuk do you come up with any of that by what I said Bman, what the phuk does what I SAID HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE HAULOCAUST....................but no I DON'T believe as the Jews do that they are the chosen ANYTHING..............I'm tired of having it thrown in my face, terminal forever vicdumb status THEY CHOOSE.


Which undoutedly puts them in the positions they're in.


There were MILLIONS killed besides them and they weren't even in total MAJORITY of those killed, so stuff that analogy. I already stated I wish them no harm, MY FAMILY IS phuking JEWISH (by marriage) my mother, sister and brother are jewish.
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 26 2008, 08:31 AM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 06:58 AM)





So in otherwords, you were for the holocaust and against us going to fight in World War 2. That is disgusting my friend. A lot of pepole want the holocaust to start all over again. I think you are one of them.

I am not sure what you mean that they rewrote God's law. My understanding is that Christians, while they believe Jews are the chosen people, believe that they turned their back on Christ and had him crucified. Would you agree with tha?

And as far as rewriting GODS law.......................they would not allow the Ten Commandments to stand in this country by proxy outside written law, so they had to subvert them, replace them, and have the Seven Noahide Laws written BY LAW into our legislated law of the land.

Not by vote or acceptance, but by subversion and forced them behind everyone's back through a minorital Jewish religious movement at that, they had no right, who the phuk do they think they are "THE WIZARDS OF OZ"??!!!!!! rolleyes.gif


Which by the way also totally destroys the concept and practice of SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE, so go ahead, defend it to me kid......................... huh.gif
Montrovant
I am so confused by this thread. ohmy.gif
B-man
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 09:26 AM)
I don't know all the people of Isreal, nor do I wish them harm, but I'm most definitely against killing off the rest of the world and having our children killed off in their stead!!!!!!!!!!!


Phirst of all, I think your a phuckin phreek who needs some phreekin meds. I hope you don't live on the west coast. I didn't realize that psych hospitals allowed computers and WIFI.

Iph you read the above quote by you, you'll see that you are implying that we should not phight for Israel. If you don't think that we should phight phor Israel now, it is likely that you don't think we should have phought phor them in WWII.

Got it KID?

Give me an example where the 7 Noahide Laws were put in our "legislated law of the land."
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 26 2008, 12:38 PM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 09:26 AM)
I don't know all the people of Isreal, nor do I wish them harm, but I'm most definitely against killing off the rest of the world and having our children killed off in their stead!!!!!!!!!!!


Phirst of all, I think your a phuckin phreek who needs some phreekin meds. I hope you don't live on the west coast. I didn't realize that psych hospitals allowed computers and WIFI.

Iph you read the above quote by you, you'll see that you are implying that we should not phight for Israel. If you don't think that we should phight phor Israel now, it is likely that you don't think we should have phought phor them in WWII.

Got it KID?

Give me an example where the 7 Noahide Laws were put in our "legislated law of the land."

On this day , which you may or may not have missed depending on who you actually are, the Ten Commandments were replaced by the Seven Noahide Laws BY LEGISLATIVE LAW.


http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=47276


And you may want to read this......................... http://watch.pair.com/law.html

or this......................... http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/12-19.html

but maybe not this......................... http://www.fisheaters.com/jc2.html rolleyes.gif


Oh and by the way BB we didn't just phight for them in WWII...................Jewish are ya, iph not may I call you Gomer?
B-man
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 01:14 PM)
[

I am not going to spend all day long chasing down evidence for your arguement Nib. Present your argument and leave a link if I decide to check you on it. Most of the time, I will take what you say as gospel unless I could prove otherwise but don't expect me to spend hours reading your ridiculous sources who by the way aren't legitimate in my opinion anyway. If the websited doesn't end in .edu or .org, I don't consider it legit. You did provide a couple which I did notice.

Oh and I never said that we faught for JUST Israel in WWII.
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 26 2008, 03:54 PM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 01:14 PM)
[

I am not going to spend all day long chasing down evidence for your arguement Nib. Present your argument and leave a link if I decide to check you on it. Most of the time, I will take what you say as gospel unless I could prove otherwise but don't expect me to spend hours reading your ridiculous sources who by the way aren't legitimate in my opinion anyway. If the websited doesn't end in .edu or .org, I don't consider it legit. You did provide a couple which I did notice.

Oh and I never said that we faught for JUST Israel in WWII.

Here's the Law As it Reads on the Books:

APPENDIX ONE
105 STAT. 44 PUBLIC LAW 102-14-MAR. 20,1991

Public Law 102-14
102d Congress
Joint Resolution

Mar. 20. 1991
[H.J Res 104] To designate March 26. 1991, as "Education Day. U. S. A."

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our, great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

Whereas without thes ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;

Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;

Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991:

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, "the rebbe", this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of "education and giving", the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws: and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state:

Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lutbavitch movement. is designated as "Education Day. U.S.A.". The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

PUBLIC LAW 102-14-MAR. 20,1991 105 STAT. 45

Approved March 20, 1991

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY-H.J Res 104
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. Vol 137. (1991)
Mar 5. considered and passed House
Mar 7. considered and passed Senate
56

B-man
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 04:53 PM)
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 26 2008, 03:54 PM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 01:14 PM)
[

I am not going to spend all day long chasing down evidence for your arguement Nib. Present your argument and leave a link if I decide to check you on it. Most of the time, I will take what you say as gospel unless I could prove otherwise but don't expect me to spend hours reading your ridiculous sources who by the way aren't legitimate in my opinion anyway. If the websited doesn't end in .edu or .org, I don't consider it legit. You did provide a couple which I did notice.

Oh and I never said that we faught for JUST Israel in WWII.

Here's the Law As it Reads on the Books:

APPENDIX ONE
105 STAT. 44 PUBLIC LAW 102-14-MAR. 20,1991

Public Law 102-14
102d Congress
Joint Resolution

Mar. 20. 1991
[H.J Res 104] To designate March 26. 1991, as "Education Day. U. S. A."

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our, great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

Whereas without thes ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;

Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;

Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991:

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, "the rebbe", this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of "education and giving", the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws: and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state:

Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lutbavitch movement. is designated as "Education Day. U.S.A.". The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

PUBLIC LAW 102-14-MAR. 20,1991 105 STAT. 45

Approved March 20, 1991

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY-H.J Res 104
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. Vol 137. (1991)
Mar 5. considered and passed House
Mar 7. considered and passed Senate
56

Ok, no offense but so what? I forgot what the argument was in the first place. How does this observance affect me?
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 26 2008, 05:55 PM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 04:53 PM)
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 26 2008, 03:54 PM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 01:14 PM)
[

I am not going to spend all day long chasing down evidence for your arguement Nib. Present your argument and leave a link if I decide to check you on it. Most of the time, I will take what you say as gospel unless I could prove otherwise but don't expect me to spend hours reading your ridiculous sources who by the way aren't legitimate in my opinion anyway. If the websited doesn't end in .edu or .org, I don't consider it legit. You did provide a couple which I did notice.

Oh and I never said that we faught for JUST Israel in WWII.

Here's the Law As it Reads on the Books:

APPENDIX ONE
105 STAT. 44 PUBLIC LAW 102-14-MAR. 20,1991

Public Law 102-14
102d Congress
Joint Resolution

Mar. 20. 1991
[H.J Res 104] To designate March 26. 1991, as "Education Day. U. S. A."

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our, great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

Whereas without thes ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;

Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society;

Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future;

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991:

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, "the rebbe", this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of "education and giving", the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws: and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state:

Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lutbavitch movement. is designated as "Education Day. U.S.A.". The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

PUBLIC LAW 102-14-MAR. 20,1991 105 STAT. 45

Approved March 20, 1991

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY-H.J Res 104
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. Vol 137. (1991)
Mar 5. considered and passed House
Mar 7. considered and passed Senate
56

Ok, no offense but so what? I forgot what the argument was in the first place. How does this observance affect me?

You really may want to research some things , I already have in depth because I could not understand how and why religion specific legislation was allowed to be legislated into our laws, there are many many sources............................it is for future implementation and development.

READ THIS AND SOURCE IT, take your time it's long ........................... http://www.public-action.com/christmas.html
Detmurds
Hey Nib, tell me this, if you love God, and love Jesus, do you not love Israel?
nibor
QUOTE (Detmurds @ Jul 26 2008, 06:37 PM)
Hey Nib, tell me this, if you love God, and love Jesus, do you not love Israel?

Det Isreal is not God, nor contains God........................and I've heard nothing but proclaimation from them biblically, in history and in my life time that proves their Godliness, talk is very cheap and actions play much louder than words!


I'm really very sick of religious arrogance ON ALL FRONTS!!!!!!!!! unsure.gif

Mostly it seems to me that they have the most to learn.................the so called purveyors of God's word and will, and those that attempt to speak in his stead will learn the hardest and harshest lessons!!!!!! huh.gif
Montrovant
Let me see if I can wrap my mind around this. I started reading the latest link you provided Nibor, and it ran right up to the edge of credulity and jumped on over smile.gif

Congress decided to honor the leader of an Hassidic Jewish sect while officially designating a day (and although I'm not sure, it almost sounded like it was that single day, rather than a recurring day each year) an Education Day. Not Jewish Day, not Christians are bad Day, Education Day. From this, we are somehow to extrapolate that the US government is trying to remove Christianity from the country (in which a large majority of people consider themselves Christian, in which we have Christian holidays celebrated nationally i.e. Christmas, Easter) and turn us into an Orthodox Jewish theocracy? Is that about the size of it?
nibor
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 26 2008, 07:51 PM)
Let me see if I can wrap my mind around this.  I started reading the latest link you provided Nibor, and it ran right up to the edge of credulity and jumped on over smile.gif

Congress decided to honor the leader of an Hassidic Jewish sect while officially designating a day (and although I'm not sure, it almost sounded like it was that single day, rather than a recurring day each year) an Education Day.  Not Jewish Day, not Christians are bad Day, Education Day.  From this, we are somehow to extrapolate that the US government is trying to remove Christianity from the country (in which a large majority of people consider themselves Christian, in which we have Christian holidays celebrated nationally i.e. Christmas, Easter) and turn us into an Orthodox Jewish theocracy?  Is that about the size of it?

Read the whole link, absorb it, understand what it's saying by NOT taking in only part of one link but further sourcing the information contained in that link...............it goes further.

Then try to draw more complete pictures when you figure out just how illegal it was to legislate religion specific legislation into our society, ESPECIALLY when it extends all the way to the supposed word and will of GOD in the hands of man and imposed punishment contained in those laws if they be broken in another time and SOCIETY in the future, considering how many are dying over the words and meanings contained there in amoungst these religions today!!!!!!!! blink.gif !

For one thing punishment is not automatically PRESCIBED or imposed for breaking the Ten Commandments, UNTIL you've been tried for your crimes and sentenced in a court of law, AND NEVER BY A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION!!!!!!! blink.gif

AND what does BEHEADING as a punishment for every Noahide Law broken say about the putrified regression of our brainwashed society, as prescribed and contained in these adopted laws. Come on this ain't brain surgery"for Christ's sake"..........................were you offended by the beheading of our people by the muslims........................well in theory we could possibly end up like their stagnated putrid society , we've allowed a bunch of pencilnecked brown nosing do nothing imperialistic cowards slip it into OUR legislated law, fortunately as yet untested! huh.gif
B-man
Nib can you please explain in layman terms what the big deal is here. I am trying to follow you... I really am but you write exactly how a bipolar writes in a manic state. I am not trying to be mean but I have seen that before from a bipolar person.

Tell me the issue here as if I was a child. Please.

And, I am not going to spend two hours on researching it because it's not that big of an interest to me right now unless you make it interesting which so far you haven't. It just makes my head spin.

If you have some superior intelligence that I comprehend than forgive me.
MAKEMDEAD
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 08:06 PM)
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 26 2008, 07:51 PM)
Let me see if I can wrap my mind around this.  I started reading the latest link you provided Nibor, and it ran right up to the edge of credulity and jumped on over smile.gif

Congress decided to honor the leader of an Hassidic Jewish sect while officially designating a day (and although I'm not sure, it almost sounded like it was that single day, rather than a recurring day each year) an Education Day.  Not Jewish Day, not Christians are bad Day, Education Day.  From this, we are somehow to extrapolate that the US government is trying to remove Christianity from the country (in which a large majority of people consider themselves Christian, in which we have Christian holidays celebrated nationally i.e. Christmas, Easter) and turn us into an Orthodox Jewish theocracy?  Is that about the size of it?

Read the whole link, absorb it, understand what it's saying by NOT taking in only part of one link but further sourcing the information contained in that link...............it goes further.

Then try to draw more complete pictures when you figure out just how illegal it was to legislate religion specific legislation into our society, ESPECIALLY when it extends all the way to the supposed word and will of GOD in the hands of man and imposed punishment contained in those laws if they be broken in another time and SOCIETY in the future, considering how many are dying over the words and meanings contained there in amoungst these religions today!!!!!!!! blink.gif !

For one thing punishment is not automatically PRESCIBED or imposed for breaking the Ten Commandments, UNTIL you've been tried for your crimes and sentenced in a court of law, AND NEVER BY A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION!!!!!!! blink.gif

AND what does BEHEADING as a punishment for every Noahide Law broken say about the putrified regression of our brainwashed society, as prescribed and contained in these adopted laws. Come on this ain't brain surgery"for Christ's sake"..........................were you offended by the beheading of our people by the muslims........................well in theory we could possibly end up like their stagnated putrid society , we've allowed a bunch of pencilnecked brown nosing do nothing imperialistic cowards slip it into OUR legislated law, fortunately as yet untested! huh.gif

That was cool!
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 27 2008, 12:50 AM)
Nib can you please explain in layman terms what the big deal is here. I am trying to follow you... I really am but you write exactly how a bipolar writes in a manic state. I am not trying to be mean but I have seen that before from a bipolar person.

Tell me the issue here as if I was a child. Please.

And, I am not going to spend two hours on researching it because it's not that big of an interest to me right now unless you make it interesting which so far you haven't. It just makes my head spin.

If you have some superior intelligence that I comprehend than forgive me.

It makes your head spin so obviously there's something wrong with me...................alrighty then?????????? ohmy.gif

It is very complicated, but the fact is that direct religious involvement in our government and legislated law is HIGHLY illegal by our standards of separation between church and state. The Ten Commandments were commonly kept by most people as a guide to create public law, and publically displayed as a reminder. But the church can not prescribe punishment for breaking those laws, hence our courts of law and not the inquisitions and crusades and usurption of government powers of the past.

If it's not of great interest to you it's because we've been allowed to take too much for granted and have become lazy and appathetic idiots. If the Noahide Laws are allowed to stand in our written law by example AND PRESCRIBED by text, by a very small minority, your reality or the reality of your children or grand children could be changed in a heart beat , with a yet unforseen change of the power structure of this country , WHICH IS HAPPENING BY THE WAY, AND NOT FOR THE BETTER. With church/governmental prescribed beheadings for the breaking of any of their God's laws, if strictly adheard to, because the populous may be to lazy or dumbed down to force the repeal of an ugly concept. unsure.gif
nibor
QUOTE (MAKEMDEAD @ Jul 27 2008, 07:00 AM)
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 26 2008, 08:06 PM)
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 26 2008, 07:51 PM)
Let me see if I can wrap my mind around this.  I started reading the latest link you provided Nibor, and it ran right up to the edge of credulity and jumped on over smile.gif

Congress decided to honor the leader of an Hassidic Jewish sect while officially designating a day (and although I'm not sure, it almost sounded like it was that single day, rather than a recurring day each year) an Education Day.  Not Jewish Day, not Christians are bad Day, Education Day.  From this, we are somehow to extrapolate that the US government is trying to remove Christianity from the country (in which a large majority of people consider themselves Christian, in which we have Christian holidays celebrated nationally i.e. Christmas, Easter) and turn us into an Orthodox Jewish theocracy?  Is that about the size of it?

Read the whole link, absorb it, understand what it's saying by NOT taking in only part of one link but further sourcing the information contained in that link...............it goes further.

Then try to draw more complete pictures when you figure out just how illegal it was to legislate religion specific legislation into our society, ESPECIALLY when it extends all the way to the supposed word and will of GOD in the hands of man and imposed punishment contained in those laws if they be broken in another time and SOCIETY in the future, considering how many are dying over the words and meanings contained there in amoungst these religions today!!!!!!!! blink.gif !

For one thing punishment is not automatically PRESCIBED or imposed for breaking the Ten Commandments, UNTIL you've been tried for your crimes and sentenced in a court of law, AND NEVER BY A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION!!!!!!! blink.gif

AND what does BEHEADING as a punishment for every Noahide Law broken say about the putrified regression of our brainwashed society, as prescribed and contained in these adopted laws. Come on this ain't brain surgery"for Christ's sake"..........................were you offended by the beheading of our people by the muslims........................well in theory we could possibly end up like their stagnated putrid society , we've allowed a bunch of pencilnecked brown nosing do nothing imperialistic cowards slip it into OUR legislated law, fortunately as yet untested! huh.gif

That was cool!

What was cool MD...........................? huh.gif
Montrovant
Let me try again.

Are you saying that the creation of this Education Day somehow made Orthodox Jewish laws part of the laws of the US? Because they mentioned this rabbi?

Or is there another law(s) you haven't yet shown that actually make these Noahide Laws part of US law?
B-man
QUOTE (nibor @ Jul 27 2008, 07:25 AM)
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 27 2008, 12:50 AM)
Nib can you please explain in layman terms what the big deal is here.  I am trying to follow you... I really am but you write exactly how a bipolar writes in a manic state. I am not trying to be mean but I have seen that before from a bipolar person.

Tell me the issue here as if I was a child.  Please.

And, I am not going to spend two hours on researching it because it's not that big of an interest to me right now unless you make it interesting which so far you haven't.  It just makes my head spin.

If you have some superior intelligence that I comprehend than forgive me.

It makes your head spin so obviously there's something wrong with me...................alrighty then?????????? ohmy.gif

It is very complicated, but the fact is that direct religious involvement in our government and legislated law is HIGHLY illegal by our standards of separation between church and state. The Ten Commandments were commonly kept by most people as a guide to create public law, and publically displayed as a reminder. But the church can not prescribe punishment for breaking those laws, hence our courts of law and not the inquisitions and crusades and usurption of government powers of the past.

If it's not of great interest to you it's because we've been allowed to take too much for granted and have become lazy and appathetic idiots. If the Noahide Laws are allowed to stand in our written law by example AND PRESCRIBED by text, by a very small minority, your reality or the reality of your children or grand children could be changed in a heart beat , with a yet unforseen change of the power structure of this country , WHICH IS HAPPENING BY THE WAY, AND NOT FOR THE BETTER. With church/governmental prescribed beheadings for the breaking of any of their God's laws, if strictly adheard to, because the populous may be to lazy or dumbed down to force the repeal of an ugly concept. unsure.gif

Thank you. You do realize that both houses of Congress pray be for they start their session?
nibor
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 27 2008, 12:51 PM)
Let me try again.

Are you saying that the creation of this Education Day somehow made Orthodox Jewish laws part of the laws of the US?  Because they mentioned this rabbi?

Or is there another law(s) you haven't yet shown that actually make these Noahide Laws part of US law?



Monty the fact that the Noahide Laws were prescribed BY NAME BY LAW MAKES THEM THE OFFICIAL LAW OF THE LAND..........................THE HONORING OF THE RABBI WAS MERELY THE SHELL that contained the pea in this shell game.


IT WASN'T HONORING THE RABBI THAT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE!!!!!! huh.gif

Do any of you read the Tora or the Talmud to understand what the official law of the land contains...........AND THE PUNISHMENT IT PRESCRIBES..............and do you understand that these laws WERE NOT WRITTEN TO BE ENFORCED ON JEWS BUT ON "RULED GENTILES"???
nibor
Do they pray by the Tora or the Talmud Bman??????????? ohmy.gif
Montrovant
nibor, I still don't understand how this became the 'law of the land'. You are making no sense. What you posted earlier was the creation of an Education Day USA. Just because they mentioned the Noahide Laws in that does NOT make them the law of the land.

You seem to be saying that because they mention the Noahide Laws in this one document (not even a law, so far as I could tell, simply a document declaring a certain day to be Education Day) that those laws can now be enforced in this country. That is ridiculous. That's like saying if any Congressional documents ever mention France, we are subject to French law. You have yet to clearly show how we are subject to the Noahide Laws.

You also seem to be complaining because it is a Jewish thing, rather than religious. Are you worried about religious law becoming part of the US, or just non-Christian?
nibor
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 28 2008, 11:42 AM)
nibor, I still don't understand how this became the 'law of the land'.  You are making no sense.  What you posted earlier was the creation of an Education Day USA.  Just because they mentioned the Noahide Laws in that does NOT make them the law of the land.

You seem to be saying that because they mention the Noahide Laws in this one document (not even a law, so far as I could tell, simply a document declaring a certain day to be Education Day) that those laws can now be enforced in this country.  That is ridiculous.  That's like saying if any Congressional documents ever mention France, we are subject to French law.  You have yet to clearly show how we are subject to the Noahide Laws.

You also seem to be complaining because it is a Jewish thing, rather than religious.  Are you worried about religious law becoming part of the US, or just non-Christian?



Monty IT IS a public law on the books, of which I also posted, maybe go back and read it please, obviously you missed it! rolleyes.gif

IT'S ON PAGE TWO, I didn't link it I brought the law as it appears on the books and not just the George Bush cover/propaganda page!~ huh.gif
Montrovant
I saw that, and read it. Did you? It is the creation of Education Day USA. It in no way makes this Orthodox Jewish law the law of the US. If this is all you have to go on, you are clearly leaping to conclusions without reason.
nibor
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 28 2008, 05:56 PM)
I saw that, and read it.  Did you?  It is the creation of Education Day USA.  It in no way makes this Orthodox Jewish law the law of the US.  If this is all you have to go on, you are clearly leaping to conclusions without reason.

Are you kidding..........................do you actually believe that it could not be used in context .......................... I believe you'd be wrong after the first time the precedent is established in some obscure case unforeseen.


The wording of the law IS A TRAP! huh.gif


Much like the Patriot Act is a very dangerous trap and double edge sword in the wrongly established precedent! huh.gif
B-man
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 28 2008, 11:42 AM)

You also seem to be complaining because it is a Jewish thing, rather than religious. Are you worried about religious law becoming part of the US, or just non-Christian?

That was the point I was trying to make. Thank you Mont.
McPrez
I think a lot of strange stuff happened when Obama went to the mid east. This topic being one of them?
nibor
QUOTE (B-man @ Jul 28 2008, 07:23 PM)
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 28 2008, 11:42 AM)

You also seem to be complaining because it is a Jewish thing, rather than religious.  Are you worried about religious law becoming part of the US, or just non-Christian?

That was the point I was trying to make. Thank you Mont.

NO religion specific legislation can be allowed and still maintain the separation between church and state , I care not which religion......................however there is no majority of Jews anywhere but in Isreal, why would it be deemed necessary to live by their version and vision of God's will and punishment.

Then break it down to the Lubavitch movement specifically, don't even try to tell me that they hold the majority in Judaism itself, and now we're down to a mere sect of a religion calling the shots. Many Jews I know personally don't or won't admit to following the Talmud, so what would that happen to say about who or what is pushing the buttons besides other sects like the Masons, Opus Dei , the Illuminati , or Zionists for that matter , whomever recognizing it, creating what but no one allowed except a specific ruling class, SECT OR CABAL?

Believe me when I tell you I want NONE OF IT, anything that usurps power from the majority is highly unacceptable to me, it would be regression back to ways that are WELL LEFT BURIED IN HISTORY!!!!!!!!
Montrovant
nibor.....are you kidding? You actually think someone is going to try and use that document, which does nothing but make a particular day Education Day USA, and say that it actually means we must follow these Noahide laws? Or that the courts would just blithely accept such nonsense?

Just because Congress makes mention of something doesn't mean it is now somehow the law of the land as you are fond of saying. I feel pretty confident other sets of laws or rules (such as the 10 Commandments, let's say!) have been mentioned in similar fashion. Does that mean we are bound by law to follow them? Does it even hint at that? Absolutely no.

To try and be blunt (for you B-man! lol) taking that innocuous document and somehow thinking it means there is a conspiracy to have some sect of Orthodox Judaism gain control of the country sounds like silly conspiracy gibberish, with possibly some religious bigotry thrown in.
nibor
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 29 2008, 12:46 AM)
nibor.....are you kidding?  You actually think someone is going to try and use that document, which does nothing but make a particular day Education Day USA, and say that it actually means we must follow these Noahide laws?  Or that the courts would just blithely accept such nonsense?

Just because Congress makes mention of something doesn't mean it is now somehow the law of the land as you are fond of saying.  I feel pretty confident other sets of laws or rules (such as the 10 Commandments, let's say!) have been mentioned in similar fashion.  Does that mean we are bound by law to follow them?  Does it even hint at that?  Absolutely no.

To try and be blunt (for you B-man! lol) taking that innocuous document and somehow thinking it means there is a conspiracy to have some sect of Orthodox Judaism gain control of the country sounds like silly conspiracy gibberish, with possibly some religious bigotry thrown in.

Oh ye of politically corrected manipulated mind, I'll critique any thing or any subject I like , no matter how many names you call me to shut me up , because I don't agree with your seemingly kumbayah outlook doesn't make me a religious bigot or maybe it does because I mistrust ALL religious power structures.

I can't call myself a true Christian because I'll not abide by their structure , actions , and defense mechanisms to defray blame for what ever and I can never be a Jew because I wasn't born one , and wouldn't even consider Islam , so the quandry is , I look at all and try to critique equally , none like it and do their damnedest to defray any critique , while none are innocent as lyingly proclaimed , and I for one will not be RULED by them.

Now as far as loop holes being created for and by any law if nit picked and micro analyzed for cracks and fringes played, you'd be SOOOO wrong , you watch organizations like the ACLU do it constantly 24/7 365 , so don't blow kumbayah sunny bullshit up my ass as to what can and can not be done to any law at any given time , if legal minds are employed to do it , just because you can't see bigger pictures , that's what the sheep herders are all about!!!! rolleyes.gif
Montrovant
Rofl.

Clearly, you can critique whatever you want to. By the same token, I can as well, and it is your conspiracy theory here I am doing it to.

I said it sounded possibly religious bigotry was involved because, first, when B-man mentioned that Congress opens sessions with a prayer, you replied that it wasn't a Jewish prayer. For someone against religion in government, it shouldn't matter, but that was the point you felt important to make. Further, because of the many Christian roots of this country, I imagine there have been many laws and documents that mention Christian rules and values at least as directly as this Education Day did the Jewish laws; does that mean we are now forced to follow Christian law? And if so, why are you not complaining about that? Hell, isn't Christmas a national holiday?

As far as the ACLU, I don't doubt they've used whatever legal loopholes they could find to try and win a case (as lawyers of all kinds do). However, I doubt even they could argue that this Education Day thing in any way makes the people of the US beholden to these Noahide laws; not with a straight face, at least! laugh.gif

Do you have any sort of legal background, that you can cite as why you know how this can be used? Do you have precedents to use as examples of how similarly worded documents were twisted into becoming US law? Do you have an example of any of the Federally observed days being used to determine law?

Kumbayah sunny bullshit..... laugh.gif As someone who's fairly cynical and pessimistic; as someone who's repeatedly stated his belief that most politicians are untrustworthy liars; as someone who's feelings about life have been strong enough that I have the word hate carved permanently into myself; it's nice to know I have a kumbayah, PC, sunny disposition wink.gif

Apparently the bigger picture is that the Jews are trying to take things over. Hrm, that sounds familiar.....I wonder if I could have heard that before?
nibor
QUOTE (Montrovant @ Jul 29 2008, 04:58 PM)
Rofl.

Clearly, you can critique whatever you want to.  By the same token, I can as well, and it is your conspiracy theory here I am doing it to. 

I said it sounded possibly religious bigotry was involved because, first, when B-man mentioned that Congress opens sessions with a prayer, you replied that it wasn't a Jewish prayer.  For someone against religion in government, it shouldn't matter, but that was the point you felt important to make.  Further, because of the many Christian roots of this country, I imagine there have been many laws and documents that mention Christian rules and values at least as directly as this Education Day did the Jewish laws; does that mean we are now forced to follow Christian law?  And if so, why are you not complaining about that?  Hell, isn't Christmas a national holiday?

As far as the ACLU, I don't doubt they've used whatever legal loopholes they could find to try and win a case (as lawyers of all kinds do).  However, I doubt even they could argue that this Education Day thing in any way makes the people of the US beholden to these Noahide laws; not with a straight face, at least!  laugh.gif

Do you have any sort of legal background, that you can cite as why you know how this can be used?  Do you have precedents to use as examples of how similarly worded documents were twisted into becoming US law?  Do you have an example of any of the Federally observed days being used to determine law?

Kumbayah sunny bullshit..... laugh.gif   As someone who's fairly cynical and pessimistic; as someone who's repeatedly stated his belief that most politicians are untrustworthy liars; as someone who's feelings about life have been strong enough that I have the word hate carved permanently into myself; it's nice to know I have a kumbayah, PC, sunny disposition  wink.gif

Apparently the bigger picture is that the Jews are trying to take things over.  Hrm, that sounds familiar.....I wonder if I could have heard that before?



Monty since the passage of this law some of the changes have been subtle and some as subtle as a sledge hammer......................for instance ARE WE ALLOWED TO EVEN SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS ANYMORE????????????? huh.gif

But there's much more, I haven't the time today to discuss it however we will when I'm finished.........................
McPrez
Nibor has a great point there Alucard! I am serious.
B-man
QUOTE (McPrez @ Jul 30 2008, 05:00 PM)
Nibor has a great point there Alucard! I am serious.

Uuuh which is what McPrez?

What does saying Merry Christmas have to do with anything Mont was saying? You both must be smoking from the same pipe.
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